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#1
Josh Klint

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Let's do a hangout this Saturday at 1 PM Mountain Time.  Check back here for the link when it goes live.

#2
Josh Klint

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Don't forget!

#3
reepblue

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Usually out and about on Saturdays, but I'll try to be there!

#4
Roland

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Will be there if I manage to figure out what time that is in northern Sweden

#5
burgelkat

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i think 8 PM in Europe

#6
Josh Klint

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It's up:
https://hangouts.google.com/call/kkq5eavxofbinan2haekf3oieie

#7
DoomSlayer

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I missed :/
Can someone please share a sumary of the hangout? :)

#8
jen

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"You are the only one here"

#9
Rick

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@Jen, look at the time difference in Josh's "It's up" post and yours right now.

#10
jen

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I joined then, and I joined again later on. I was there.

I just wanted to drop by anyway. I wasn't keen on showing my face or anything.

#11
Evayr

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View PostDoomSlayer, on 18 March 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

I missed :/
Can someone please share a sumary of the hangout? Posted Image

From what I still remember:
  • Josh is really happy with the new site, thinks it really shows what Leadwerks is capable of and deflects the "unfit" users.
  • Josh has been working on VR for a while now (Oculus and HTC Vive) using OpenVR. Almost implemented except for a few things like a skewed rendering result, which seems to be fixed when looking at today's status. :)
  • Leadwerks now has a big client, which is a reason why Josh has been working on VR so much. Couldn't say who because of NDAs.
  • Said that if Leadwerks had some more reliable income that he would hire a few people to work for him. Right now everybody just buys once and you have it forever, but if that was a $5-10 subscription per month then Leadwerks would've been in a different place right now. There weren't any plans to make subscriptions happen.
  • Said he was worried about Steam Direct. If it takes Steam's value down then he might release Leadwerks on it own or somewhere else as well.
Can't remember anything else right now, I think this was pretty much it

#12
Thirsty Panther

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View PostEvayr, on 20 March 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

From what I still remember:
  • Said that if Leadwerks had some more reliable income that he would hire a few people to work for him. Right now everybody just buys once and you have it forever, but if that was a $5-10 subscription per month then Leadwerks would've been in a different place right now. There weren't any plans to make subscriptions happen.


I bought LW 2.0 and have not paid a cent since (apart from workshop items). Even if Josh charged $20-30 for each version upgrade he would have gotten an extra $100 from me.

I'm not a big fan of pay-by-the-month. Who wants to pay $60-100 a year for something you use to pay a $100 outright.

#13
AggrorJorn

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View PostThirsty Panther, on 20 March 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

I bought LW 2.0 and have not paid a cent since (apart from workshop items).
Really? I remember the 2.3 update introducing Lua and costing around 30 dollars. Purchasing a license for LE 3.0 at its release was 200 dollars for me. Haven't payed anything since, but I don't mind paying for a major version updgrade.

I don't mind the option for monthly licenses, as long as you have an option to buy a lifetime license.

#14
Rick

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The whole reason for not charging for upgrades was because the workshop was supposed to cover that. I guess it's not? It's tough coming up with ways to make people part with their money when a good number of engines do it with royalties which seems like free at first.

Perhaps a monthly service is a good way to generate income. Not for the engine itself but for some other kind of service? $5/mo for "basic" support, $10/mo for "premium" support from Josh?

Perhaps charging for add-on utilities for the engine? There are probably some nice to haves but not required things that could charge for. Behavior tree's and visual editor would be one of those. It's not required but is a nice to have for some games. There are probably other things like that too.

I've said this before but personally I think Josh should make specific noob friendly engines based off LE's API. Much like how RPG maker is a specific game maker based on PIXI javascript library. It adds an editor that's pretty much specific to RPG's. Josh could do that with all genre's really. I know Josh said it's not his dream to do that but it probably is someones dream to make an 3D RPG maker so if he could get one person for each genre to do this for a promise of a % of the sale and he helps them out where he can he could have multiple revenue streams coming in from that. Leadwerks would be the HUB engine serving these different specific engines. People like specific things and are willing to pay for it I think. Josh would probably just have to give the editor source to these people so they could create custom dialog's and adding/removing features for that specific genre. Then their requests for engine features would take priority for Josh and Leadwerks as a whole would benefit from it in features.

I would imagine RPG Maker is the first step before they try their hand at a simple and friendly 3D RPG maker that LE could be the backbone of.

I don't know, seems like a win/win if you get the right partners.

#15
SGB

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View PostRick, on 20 March 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

I would imagine RPG Maker is the first step before they try their hand at a simple and friendly 3D RPG maker that LE could be the backbone of.

There is already a very good 3D "RPG Maker" on Steam.

#16
Rick

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View PostSGB, on 20 March 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:



There is already a very good 3D "RPG Maker" on Steam.

What a boring world it would be if competition didn't exist :). If josh had that mentality he never would have created Leadwerks. There is always a way to do something different/better.

#17
Roland

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View PostRick, on 20 March 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

I've said this before but personally I think Josh should make specific noob friendly engines based off LE's API.
As long as the current "have it all" version is available :)

#18
DoomSlayer

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@Evayr thank you for the summary :)

View PostRick, on 20 March 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

I've said this before but personally I think Josh should make specific noob friendly engines based off LE's API.

This may split the community and delay the progress of the main engine.

#19
Rick

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We're obviously exploring an idea I'm sure josh will never do but the way I'd see it playing out is josh is teaming up other people who make these products so he's not the one working on them so he'd still work on LE. However those people would give josh a % of thier sales in return for access to the LE editor source and top priority on feature requests. It would also be known that those specific engines use Leadwerks at its core.

It seems like a win win. There are people who want to make specific games but the idea of starting from scratch with a generic engine just scares them. They aren't programmers or artist, they are game designers. They enjoy working with dialogs to configure thier game. So they most likely aren't buying LE anyway. So josh picks up a portion of those sales. Eventually those people want to maybe try thier hand at another genre so they buy the RTS engine perhaps and josh gets a portion of that sale. Then after years they build up enough knowledge and currage to try LE engine itself so he gets that sale. It's like holding a persons hand as they go on thier game development journey in life.

An RPG is a daunting task even for the most seasoned devs here. Having an engine that has all the same level editing LE has but specific systems and configuration setup for an RPG game is a big value. I'm sure a decent number of existing LE users today would buy that too honestly.

By the sounds of it josh is struggling to expand the company. He needs a different or more revenue streams. He seems to be hoping VR will do this but given the cost of VR stuff it seems a novelty at best in my opinion. How many people are not buying LE because it doesn't support VR and is that number really a game changer in revenue? I think the number of dreamers who don't know code or art far outweighs the VR crowd.

#20
Rick

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View PostDoomSlayer, on 20 March 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

@Evayr thank you for the summary :)



This may split the community and delay the progress of the main engine.

Josh wouldn't be the one making these. He'd partner with a person/people who do want to make these. If anything it would probably advance the engine as it's another revenue stream as josh takes a % of thier sales and can now hire an employee who can make LE features that those other specific engines are requesting. He can focus on what he likes doing which is the generic systems for the generic engine.

It's basically like he's franchising out the engine while still maintaining LE itself and has a say in the other specific engines.