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ChrisV

Ogg and other file format support?

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Hey guys!

 

Was working on some sounds and music for Hostile. Exported some footstep sounds in .ogg format, and tried playing them ingame by modifying the script. Unfortunaly, it's not possible to play those sounds, because .ogg isn't supported in LE? sad.png

 

I can easily convert them to .wav, that's no problem. And, for small sound files like footsteps or screams or whatever, wav would be acceptable...but, not really for music.

 

A 3 minute music file in .wav format is around 30 MB. So, if you have like 10 music files in .wav, you'll need a lot of disk space for them. If you then add all the other sounds, and other media (art, textures, models, etc...), you'll end up with a game that uses a lot of disk space. wacko.png

 

The same 3 minute song is like 10 times smaller in .ogg format, while still keeping a pretty good sound quality. The same for .mp3 format, but from what i've read, .mp3 isn't allowed commercially?

 

Anyways, i think it would be a good idea to have support for .ogg and other formats that can save disk space without loss of quality. smile.png

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.ogg and other formats that can save disk space without loss of quality.

Just to be clear, if the OGG containts FLAC, then it's lossless and the size is reduced around 40-50%, per the wiki. Otherwise, it's lossy (and smaller).

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Here's some decoding code:

// oggdecoder.c

#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <string.h>

#include <vorbis/vorbisfile.h>

static int quiet = 0;
static int bits = 16;
#if __APPLE__ && __BIG_ENDIAN__
static int endian = 1;
#else
static int endian = 0;
#endif
static int raw = 0;
static int sign = 1;

typedef struct oggio oggio;

struct oggio
{
   OggVorbis_File	vf;
ov_callbacks	cb;
};

/* 
void _analysis_output_always(char *base,int i,float *v,int n,int bark,int dB,ogg_int64_t off)
{
};
*/

void *Decode_Ogg(void *stream,void *oread,void *oseek,void *oclose,void *otell,int *samples,int *channels,int *freq)
{
oggio		*ogg;
int			res;
ogg_int64_t	samples64;

*samples=-1;

ogg=(oggio*)malloc(sizeof(oggio));
ogg->cb.read_func=oread;
ogg->cb.seek_func=oseek;
ogg->cb.close_func=oclose;
ogg->cb.tell_func=otell;

res=ov_open_callbacks(stream,&ogg->vf,0,0,ogg->cb);
if (res<0) {free(ogg);return 0;}

samples64=ov_pcm_total(&ogg->vf,0);
*samples=(int)samples64;

*channels=ov_info(&ogg->vf,-1)->channels;
*freq=ov_info(&ogg->vf,-1)->rate;

return ogg;
}

int Read_Ogg(oggio *ogg,char *buf,int bytes)	// null buffer to close
{
int		res,bs;

if (buf==0) return ov_clear(&ogg->vf);

while (bytes>0)
{
	res=ov_read(&ogg->vf,buf,bytes,endian,bits/8,sign,&bs);
	if (res<0)
	{
		if (bs) return -1;	// Only one logical bitstream currently supported
		return -2;			// Warning: hole in data
	}
	buf+=res;
	bytes-=res;
}
return 0;
}

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I second this. My main project exists out of 3.8 GB of sound and that is just speach and not even music. I think ogg support is something that should be part of the core leadwerks functionality.

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Agree - after having ogg supported in LE2 and to go to wav for LE3 has required me to have to convert almost all sounds from ogg to a filesize twice the original size...

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If you have some C++ knowledge you can add support for the BASS audio library (supports MP3, OGG and more). It's free of charge for non-commercial use.

 

What you need:

- http://www.un4seen.com/ (library)

- https://github.com/brachyonic/LuaBASS (Lua bind for BASS)

- A wrapper to mimic/replace the common Sound Lua functions. I'm working on this, might release it when I'm done and people want it.

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I remember loving the simplicity of that library but I also thought it supported password protected ZIP files, which isn't mentioned in the feature list. Dang.

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Are your sounds that important? I mean.. I can understand you want to protect your Lua code and such, but many commercial games store their sounds in normal files.

 

Or is it due to licensing?

--

I just finished my wrapper which overwrites the normal Sound & Source, which works perfectly. I also made some updates to the LuaBASS bind. If anyone wants more info just send me a PM. :)

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As of 3.3 we have official support for encrypted zip archives that are created automatically in the publish process.

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This is a powerful addition to the engine! However, as ZIP is horrible at compressing WAV, the file size issue will remain.

 

Edit: Just did a quick test at home on a 5 minute song.

 

WAV (16 bit PCM, 2 channels, 44,100 Hz): 50.4MB

 

ZIPped WAV: 44.5MB

 

OGG (7 quality, around 190kbps, 44kHz): 7.28MB

 

From my understanding these are typical results and all projects with music and sound (and how many don't have them eventually?) would benefit from this implementation.

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As a sound designer I completely agree. OGG is a must. It will not only reduce the size of your games but also improve loading times since there's a lot less data to be parsed.

 

Additionally we could use WAV/OGG asset playback straight from the editor. Its very annoying to Alt-Tab between your audio editing package and LE just to audition the sounds you want to use.

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One more thing: Most of us here probably have low upload speeds, as soon as you start collaborating with other people or pushing your project backups online we will probably lose a lot of time just because of the wav files.

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I would like to see it supported somewhere this year, perhaps rolleyes.gif , reducing a lot file sound file size it's as good as texture compression.

 

Specially to publish make tiny demo game concept demos.

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Yesterday during the Leadwerks hangout Josh said its not a priority. "who has that much music to benefit from compression" were his words. Unfortunately.

 

[Edit]

 

An average WAV music file can weight around 40 to 60 MB. An equivalent OGG file would be about 5-10 MB depending on quality. The argument that encrypted ZIP files help in this case is not appropriate. ZIP compression is horrible at reducing audio file size and besides the file it self is never reduced it still needs to be decompressed in RAM which can be used for other [more useful] purposes. OGG uses psychoacoustic compression which strips parts of audio that we as humans would never hear anyway. Thus reducing the file bandwidth. I guess for now its up to us to implement some kind of audio compression.

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Yesterday during the Leadwerks hangout Josh said its not a priority.

 

If foliage and some other features comes faster, than it's ok to leave Ogg for now.

And perhaps someone will write a plugin and Lua binding for all LE3 users ? smile.png

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If foliage and some other features comes faster, than it's ok to leave Ogg for now.

And perhaps someone will write a plugin and Lua binding for all LE3 users ? smile.png

 

He promised a slew of new features that we all are waiting for. So OGG can wait indeed, especially if no one is stopping you from writing your own parser.

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