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Crypto-currencies


Josh

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This seems to be what everyone is talking about. I bought a little myself a couple weeks ago and have made an 8% return pretty quickly. I definitely would not invest more than you can afford to lose, and right now I am just treating it like an online game. I'm curious to see what people here think about this stuff.

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I looked at the blockchain technology for my own knowledge, used ethereum network for a bit and looked at source code.

I would not invest in this, but I know people who do, either mining or trade.

New currencies appear all the time, fraud or hackings happen.

So interesting idea, im just following to see new developments 

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I've been in the bitcoin days since 2014. At my peak mining I had 4 bitcoin. Sold it to pay for 30 servers which are now collecting dust in my basement.

That being said, right now we're in a bubble and it's going to crash back down to probably $5k.

I still have 0.02984 bitcoin from my mining days that I don't plan on selling. I would have had more but BTC-E had issues and that's where I had my coin.

I think the technology is going to last. It has huge potentials, not just at a currency level but from a business point of view. Businesses spend millions to do accounting and reconciling of invoices and checks. With bitcoin it's fairy straight forward who received what and from who. It would be a huge game changer as far as accounting is concerned in business.

From a currency point of view I see it eventually hitting 1M per coin. Probably in about 20 years or so. The US economy IMO is also at a bubble, I see crypto currencies getting traction as more economic struggles happen.

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 @martyj What kind of miners do you have? There are people all over the world buying older equipment. 

Right now I have 78 of the bitmain s9. Which is a little over 1ph.

I personally don't think we will ever see a $5,000 bitcoin again. But still have invested a lot of my mining proceeds into other coins. 

 

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1 hour ago, tournamentdan said:

 @martyj What kind of miners do you have? There are people all over the world buying older equipment. 

Right now I have 78 of the bitmain s9. Which is a little over 1ph.

I mined the alt-coins back in the day. Protoshares was the major one that I use to mine. CPU only, so I have 30 servers in Dell bladecenters.

Mining bitcoin has never been profitable for me. Only the alt-coins.

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30 minutes ago, aiaf said:

Heh was about to ask if you own a flat of servers to make bitcoin mining profitable :) but now I see

Well actually even if you mine with one miner. It is profitable. You just need the newest hardware. 

A bitmain s9 is currently producing $34.42 USD a day gross income. So that's about $1,032. USD a month. Depending on your electricity cost will dictate your net income. For example at .11 cents a kw (for me) a single s9 miner costs $100. USD a month. Unfortunately bitmain has raised their prices up to $2,300 USD. Plus about $105 for a psu. With shipping total costs would be around $2,500 USD. So you would get a ROI in about 2.7 months. That's of course if the price of Bitcoin stays the same.

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8 minutes ago, martyj said:

I mined the alt-coins back in the day. Protoshares was the major one that I use to mine. CPU only, so I have 30 servers in Dell bladecenters.

Mining bitcoin has never been profitable for me. Only the alt-coins.

Ahh yes the good old days of cpu and gpu mining. Yes did it back then also. It was just for fun back then :)

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I don't know, I'm still saving up my bottle caps!

Bitcoin is interesting in that it seems to be viewed more as an investment than used as a currency in it's current state. Nobody holds onto their $1 they got today because it'll get them $5 worth of stuff tomorrow but that's what they are doing with bitcoin. So it's entire point of being a currency gets sort of defeated and now it's basically the next collectible like Magic the Gathering cards. A person I know sold some widow card for like $10k, which he got 20 years ago for like $1.

So really the fact that the rarity is known because of the math just turns it into something to trade for trading sake and the ones who got in early and held on benefit the most as long as the hype sticks around. The moment people stop caring about Magic the Gathering, and it's day will come, is the moment nobody finds value in any of it's cards anymore. I wonder what other things in history that were rare and people once found value in are thought as worthless by most people today.

Imagine if the US said it would stop printing money and whatever is out in circulation is all that there will ever be. Eventually it would all get destroyed or lost and everyone would think about how stupid this is and stop finding value in it and finally switch to bottle caps! See how I brought that around :)

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6 hours ago, Rick said:

Nobody holds onto their $1 they got today because it'll get them $5 worth of stuff tomorrow but that's what they are doing with bitcoin.

I don't know how it works but don't you still have to spend real money to buy bitcoin?  So in that sense isn't it like investing in real estate or stocks or something else?

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1 hour ago, gamecreator said:

I don't know how it works but don't you still have to spend real money to buy bitcoin?  So in that sense isn't it like investing in real estate or stocks or something else?

Yeah, that's what I was saying though. It's supposed to be a currency and currencies are meant to exist so you can purchase goods and services, but nobody is really doing that with bitcoin. They aren't treating it as a currency in which you use to purchase goods or services, they are treating it like a stock in which it's value is going up and up quickly. So it's goal of being a currency isn't really being met. It's goal of being something unique and limited and people liking the IDEA of it being a currency is being met though which drives it's value up, which is counter intuitive to it's actual goal of being used to purchase goods and services. Nobody in their right mind at this point is using bitcoin as currency to buy anything because in 1 months time you could have bought 5 of whatever you bought a month ago with the same amount of bitcoin because it's value keeps going up.

Bitcoin won't be actually used to purchase goods or services on a regular basis (like other currencies) until it's volatility flattens out and people fear a bitcoin could lose it's value. That could be awhile.

All the other crypto-currencies are the same thing. When Magic the Gathering came out a lot of copy cats came after it. Same here. They are trying to be the unique/rare thing that trends to drive it's value up.

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Everything in this world is worth something. I myself do not think that a bunch of splatter of paint on a canvas should amount to be worth anything. But it always seems like there is someone in this world willing to spend a lot of money on what looks like explosive diarrhea.

Crypto currencies are still in their infant stages. And many are still considered speculative. Just to give you an example of a large name currently traded on the stock market.  TESLA. Yep Tesla. They currently have a larger maket cap than Ford. Yet are no where near the sales of Ford. So their stock price is purely speculative also.

That being said. Bitcoin may fail. But I am very confident that decentralized crypto currencies will allow the people of the world to push back against the rigged banking systems.

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But I am very confident that decentralized crypto currencies will allow the people of the world to push back against the rigged banking systems.

This is why it's value is skyrocketing right now. Because so does everyone else and they know there is a cap on how many can exist. That being said, I assume you're not actually buying things with your bitcoin because you'd be losing out of future US Dollars (assuming you're from the US). What good is a currency if you don't want to spend it on goods and services? I can't blame you though, nobody in their right mind would spend their bitcoin on goods and services right now. If anything they would "cash out" for their countries currency right now. So all the things that are good about it are preventing it from actually being used as a currency to buy goods and services. It's kind of in a pickle if that's it's ultimate goal of existence.

What's interesting is, from my understanding if not a lot of people are mining them (or weren't back in the day) then it's more likely to get them easier. So what stops someone from creating a new crypto currency, not tell anyone, gather a bunch first, then release it into the world in hopes that it'll catch on and become trendy. The value of them increases for country currencies and then they cash out. If you can be the first few you can get rich. That doesn't seem right does it? The first few did very little to deserve the riches. So from an ethical standpoint, it doesn't seem right.

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1 hour ago, Rick said:

This is why it's value is skyrocketing right now. Because so does everyone else and they know there is a cap on how many can exist.

Although there is a cap on how many bitcoin can exist. A bitcoin can be divisible all the way down to the 8th decimal. That's 0.00000001. So even if the whole world buys into bitcoin. There is enough to go around. But just to give you an idea on how small scale Bitoin still is. If 5 percent of the money that is currently being held in gold moves into bitcoin. That would be a $25,000. USD  Bitcoin. If 5 percent of the world puts their money into Bitcoin. That would be a $500,000. USD Bitcoin.

 

1 hour ago, Rick said:

 That being said, I assume you're not actually buying things with your bitcoin because you'd be losing out of future US Dollars (assuming you're from the US). What good is a currency if you don't want to spend it on goods and services? I can't blame you though, nobody in their right mind would spend their bitcoin on goods and services right now.

Yes I used to use my Bitcoin to purchase things. Bitcoin was created as a crypto currency. But, right now with the price influx it is more used as a crypto commodity. And really until the price settles down somewhere at the top. That's the way it will stay. I am a bitcoin miner so I still have to sell some bitcoin to pay for the bills. :(

 

1 hour ago, Rick said:

 

What's interesting is, from my understanding if not a lot of people are mining them (or weren't back in the day) then it's more likely to get them easier. So what stops someone from creating a new crypto currency, not tell anyone, gather a bunch first, then release it into the world in hopes that it'll catch on and become trendy. The value of them increases for country currencies and then they cash out. If you can be the first few you can get rich. That doesn't seem right does it? The first few did very little to deserve the riches. So from an ethical standpoint, it doesn't seem right.

 Currently there are over 1,000 crypto coins out there. And yes unfortunately this has already happened with some crypto coins.

Litecoins creator pretty much copy and pasted the bitcoin protocol. He changed a few things here and there. When he first released Litecoin. He claimed it was gpu and asic chip resistant (for mining). And it could only be mined on a cpu. About a year later it was found that you could mine with a gpu and that the creator was mining with a gpu (much faster) the whole time.With obviously an unfair advantage. 

Another most recent coin is Tron. Their creator kept coins at the very beginning. Like billions of Tron coins. Some coins do this so they can continue to fund the development of the coin. Well just last week it turned out that he plagiarized a lot of his white paper. And he then sold 300 million worth of his coins. Not cool.

It really just comes down to like any other investment. Do your homework and as Josh said...

On 1/6/2018 at 4:56 PM, Josh said:

 I definitely would not invest more than you can afford to lose

 

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Bitcoin was created as a crypto currency

I understand what it was created for but what it has become is different. That's the issue it has. Can it ever be used as a regular currency instead of an investment? Who knows now.

In my personal moral view, it's wrong to benefit early adopters to a currency like what crypto-currencies do. I mean it is what it is and people can get rich from the investment, but I don't agree with it. Does that person care if I care? Of course not they are rich, but it's my opinion on the matter. A currency is meant to be a common form to exchange goods and services between people. That's not what bitcoin is right now and who knows if it'll ever be now. Maybe in 100 years?

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Real government currencies rise and fall every day. What do we say to the people in Greece, Zimbabwe, and Venezuela. If it's okay for these people to loose money. In a real currency. Then why is it bad for early investors that took a chance to make money. After all, if it weren't for the early investors that took a chance and believed in something way before others. Many things would not exist today. 

I myself dislike not being able to use bitcoin as a currency. But I think in the next two years bitcoin will be at it's top and be more stable. That's more than people in Zimbabwe can say. They are using US dollars right now because their currency is worthless. Currently they have a shortage of USD and can only take $20 a week out the bank. Also they are not even allowed to take any money outside of their country. 

Jamie Dimon (CEO of JP Morgan) called bitcoin a fraud. Yet his company is fined hundreds of millions of dollars each year for fraud. Yet he does not go to jail.

Not one person has gone to jail over the financial collapse. This is why we need a decentralized currency. Give it time. It will get there. 

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“Then why is it bad for early investors that took a chance to make money.”

In my view because currency is meant to act as a way to purchase goods and services and not as an investment in itself like bitcoin is right now. Purchasing bitcoin at the start wasnt much of a risk as it was what, sub dollar for 1 coin? That’s not a risk it’s just luck that it became this collectible thing who’s value skyrocketed. Again all in my view. The ones who got rich obviously don’t care what I think 😀

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