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Rule of the thumb: Polygons for Models/Character

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Hey guys,

 

I´m thinking about to buy some models for my game but I´m stuck at the tris/polysize. Is there a rule of the thumb how much a model should have that the game runs ok? I need a 3rd person model for my player and some models for enemies and also some props. I found a pretty nice model for 199$ that have 19k polys (+ high textured up to 4k and 8k) I would use smaller texture sizes in the game and the high textures for cutscenes.

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Well it can work, but it will take lot of GPU and power, and LE3 don't support LOD and shader LOD.

Written on the site :

This high resolution photo-realistic Soldier is especially suited for use in video/films,

 

I would say some 7000-15000 for main character. 5000-8000 for NPC

Some games uses 10 000 polys for in game and 40 000 for cut scenes.

 

From the Web :

Beware there are just numbers, the engine can use as much poly caus lot of time they use LOD for characters and some shader LOD also.

http://www.rsart.co.uk/2007/08/27/yes-but-how-many-polygons/

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975

 

 

AlEdit: Updated

Note: tinypic links (evidence) may changed, thus removed from this listing.

 

Thanks to Cops N Rappers for a large portion of the list.

 

Ace Combat X/2

YR-99 (hangar view) - 1600

 

Alan Wake

Alan - 13,437

 

Alice: Madness Returns

Alice - 11,748

 

The Amazing Spiderman

Spiderman - 11,652

 

Anarchy Reigns

Mathilda - 15,908

 

Assassin's Creed 3

Benjamin Franklin - 17,744

Charles Lee - 25,994

Connor Kenway - 28,501

Desmond - 14,934

Haytham Kenway - 19,985

 

Asura's Wrath

Asura - 23,139 with 6 arms, 16,000 with 2 arms.

 

Axel Impact/DTRacer, PS2, 2003/2005

Cars - Base mesh ~12,000 polygons (max LOD)

Volume Shadow mesh - 4,000-5,000 Vert (dynamic shadows are not stored as actual polygons, hence vertex count)

Stages - ~200k polygons

 

Batman: Arkham Asylum

Bane - 25,000

Batman (Armoured Knight) - 21,304

Croc - 20,940

Thugs - 7,000

Up to 25K for main characters

 

Batman: Arkham City

Batman Beyond suit - 13,050

Harley Quinn - 17,731

Harley Quinn (DLC) - 19,110

Poison Ivy - 15,977

 

Battlefield 3

Kiril - 15,818

Vladimir Kamarivsky - 15,819

 

Bayonetta

Bayonetta - 23,000

Jeanne (old outfit) - 18,873

Luka - 23,484

Rodin - 40,508 (15K for jewelry etc)

 

Blade And Soul

Female, Custom character - 10,026

Female, Yuran - 7,904

Female, Custom character 2 - 8,815

young male, Custom character 3 - 7,386

young male, Custom character - 7,931

young male, Custom character 2 - 8,118

young male, Custom character 4 - 8,244

 

Borderlands 2

Captain Scarlett - 13,848

 

Bioshock 2

Big Sister - 7,253

 

Bulletstorm

Grayson Hunt (past/intro level) - 41,534

Grayson Hunt (default) - 43,709

Trishka - 21,122

Victor - 19,116

 

Bullet Witch

Alicia (w/ boom stick) - 16,991

Maxwell Cougar - 16,250

Sky Serpent (boss) - 90,912

Tri-Serpent beast (final boss) - 35,063

 

Call of Duty: Black Ops

Frank Woods (full gear) - 19,777

 

Canned Boss Game Studios game, Xbox, 2002

Cars - 25000 polygons (highest LOD) - 4 textures/poly, Base texture, Reflection map, a texture used to compute a fresnel term, Shadow map, Specular highlight (encoded in the alpha channel of the reflection map)

Backgrounds - 2 or in some cases 3 textures/poly

Peak number of polygons per second - 30M polygons**

 

Castlevania Lord of Shadows

Black knight - 21,718

Cornell - 19,031

Laura - 10,000

Gabriel - 27,379 (with all upgrades.)

 

Conflict Vietnam

cut scene characters - 60,000

main characters - 2,200

NPC - 1,900

 

Crysis, PC, 2007

Nano-suit character - 67,000 polygons (uncertain whether it's an in-game model or not)*

Characters' heads - ~2500-3000 polygons

Characters' bodies - ~5000 polygons

 

Crysis 2 (console)

Nano suit - 19,073

Multiplayer suit - 27,414

Ceph (heavy) - 19,651

 

Dark Sector

Hayden Tenno (armoured) - 10,671

glave - 1,608

 

Darksiders II

Death - 12,216

 

Dead Island

Purna - 23,301

Xian - 15,961

 

Dead or Alive series, Xbox, 2001-2004

Character - ~10,000-15,000

 

Dead or Alive 4

Helena (C4, opera) - 39,659

 

Dead or Alive 5

Leifang (C8) - 32,497

Kasumi (armored) - 65,303, weapons - 14,046

Mila - 40,398

Pai Chan - 29,379

Ryu Hayabusa - 30,613

Sarah Bryant - 30,411

Tina (swim suit) - 34,804

 

Dead Rising, X360, 2006

Peak number of polygons per frame - ~ 4 million**

 

Dead Rising 2

Chuck Greene (Bruce Lee outfit) - 15,329, head - 7,800

Chuck Greene (default) - 16,284

Jessica Howe - 15,694

 

Dead Space 2

Isaac Clarke - 21,595

 

Deathrow, Xbox, 2002

Characters - up to 7,000 polygons - 55 bones - 1024x1024 textures on the bodies and 512x512 on the faces

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolution

Adam Jensen - 25,953

Yelena - 17,022

 

Devil May Cry 4

Agnus (cutscene) - 23,915

Avg. Gameplay characters - ~15K

Berial - 24,224

Credo (Angel, gameplay/cutscene) - 19,598

Credo (cutscene) - 22,344

Dagon - 40,893

Dante (cutscene) - 23,827

Dante (devil gameplay) - 13,094

Gloria (cutscene) - 26,940

Lady - 27,432

Nero (cut-scene) - 26,662

Sanctus (Diabolica, gameplay/cutscene) - 30,210

Trish (cutscene) - 31,340

 

Devil May Cry: DmC

Dante - 20,732

Flying Demon - 10,802

Kat - 19,077

Mundus - 17,057

 

Dragon Age 2

Arcane Horror - 9,630

Leliana Chantry - 13,870

Hawke Warrior (Female) - 16,690

Hawke Warrior (Male) - 19,364

 

Encharted Arms

Kairen - 13,073

 

Enslaved

Monkey - 20,407

Trip - 22,103

 

Far Cry 3

Jason Brody - 29,932, head - 17,179

Vaas - 19,369

 

Final Fantasy XIII

Bahamut - 16,000

Brynhildr - 16,016

Fang - 8,153

Hope - 7,954, head - 2,964

Lebreau -7,348

Lightning - 8,488

Odin - 14,088

Sazh - 8,383

Shiva - 5,752 and 7,938

Snow - 8,907

Vanille - 8,068

 

 

Final Fantasy XIII-2

Caius - 8,002

Lightning - 8,163 polygons, head and hair same as ff13.

Lightning (old outfit) - 8,488

Noel - 7,349

Snow - 8,274

 

Forza Motorsport 3

LOD0: 172753 polys

LOD1: 45074 polys

LOD2: 21802 polys

LOD3: 13134 polys

LOD4: 6360 polys

LOD5: 2556 polys

Hi-res cockpit: 79845 polys

 

Forza Motorsport 4

500,000-1,000,000 for auto vista,

Lamborghini Reventon - 562,786

Halo Warthog 798,005

 

Gears of War, Xbox 360, 2006

Wretch - 10,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

Boomer - 11,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

Marcus - 15,000 polygons with diffuse, specular and normal maps

 

Gears of War 2

Brumak - 40,084

Marcus Fenix, 20,195

 

Gears of War 3

Anya Stroud (COG outfit) - 24,144

Anya Stroud (Gears 2 outfit) - 25,370

Clay Carmine - 18,444

Marcus Fenix - 31,831

Queen Myrrah - 23,415

Samantha - 23,038

Savage Kantus - 19,899

 

God of War 3

Kratos - 22,000

 

Gran Turismo 3, PS2, 2001

Cars - ~2,000-4,000 polygons

 

Gran Turismo 4, PS2, 2004

Cars - ~2,000-5,000 polygons

 

Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, PS3, 2007

Cars - 200,000 polygons (probably interior + exterior)

 

Gran Turismo 5

Cars ~500K photomode

 

GTA San Andreas, PS2, 2004

Characters - 2,000 polygons with 1 256x256 8bit texture

NPCs - 1,200 polygons with 1 256x128 8bit texture

Gant bridge - 16,000 polygons, includes LOD

 

Half-Life, PC, 1998

Zombie - 844 polygons

High Definition pack Zombie- 1700 polygons

 

Half-Life, Dreamcast, 2000-2001 (Canned)

Zombie - 1649 polygons

 

Half-Life, PS2, 2001

Zombie - 2822 (Highest LOD)

 

Half-Life 2, PC, 2004

Alyx Vance - 8323 polygons

Barney - 5922 polygons

Combine Soldier - 4682 polygons

Classic Headcrab - 1690 polygons

SMG - 2854 polygons (with arms)

Pistol - 2268 polygons (with arms)

 

Halo, Xbox, 2001

Master Chief - 2,000 polygons

 

Halo: Reach

 

Catherine Halsey - 15,088

Civilian - 15,808

Elite (Field Marshal) - 27,394

Elite (Ranger) - 23,964

Gúta - 10,800

Kat - 31,158

Noble 6 - 28,805 (with accessories.)

 

Heavenly Sword

Nariko - 23,620

 

Jak & Daxter, PS2, 2001

Jak - 4000 polygons

 

Jak II, PS2, 2003

Jak - 10,000 polygons*

 

Killzone 3

Characters - 10-15,000

MAWLR - 100K

 

Kingdom Under Fire : The Crusaders, Xbox, 2004

Main characters - 10,000 polygons

Characters - 3,000–4,000 polygons

 

L.A. Noire

Cole Phelps - 14,215, head- 1,559

 

Lair, PS3, 2007

Main dragon plus its rider - 150,000 polygons

16x16KM scene - 134M polygons (streamed into memory, not loaded at run time)

 

The Last Remnant

Emmy - 9,378

Rush - 7,923

 

Left 4 Dead 2

Nick - 17,761

 

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, GC, 2002

Link - 2800 polygons

 

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, GC/Wii, 2006

Link - 6900 polygons

 

Lollipop Chainsaw

Juliet - 19,146

Rosalind - 17,756

 

Lost Odyssey

Cooke - 10,071

Ming Numara (dress) - 8,982

Seth Balmore - 10,900

 

Lost Planet, X360/PC, 2007

Wayne - 12392 polygons (but finally 17765 polygons for compatibility with motion blur effect)

VS robot - 30-40,000 polygons

Background - ~500,000 polygons

Peak number of polygons per frame - ~ 3 million**

 

Another point, is LOD, if your engine supports LOD , only when front of camera you'll have full polygons.

Usefull for FPS as NPC are most of the time distant with shoot fights, so you can put more polygons.

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I would recommend Fuse on Steam, it is pretty cheap at the moment and you can make your own character models and animate them via Mixamo. You get one FREE rig a week if your a Fuse user. http://store.steampowered.com/app/257400/ at the moment its 50% off. New features and updates come really quickly with this program aswell and you also get all this for free.

 

If your looking for a character creation app thats easy to use and creates high quality characters I would highly recommend this smile.png

 

Also, I believe that the poly counts for these models are fairly low and when you apply your textures to your model they are automatically baked onto the model. Another thing to add is that if you want to retopologize your model to get a lower poly count you can do this in whatever 3D modelling app you use and you can even add your own custom textures to your model as Fuse exports as OBJ. I tend to use this Fuse as a base to create a character and I'll export as OBJ and edit the model in 3D Coat to my liking.

Edited by ScrotieFlapWack

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I´m really thinking about fuse and mixamo but I dont like the solution that I cant use face plus. I´m also scared that all models will look like the same.

 

is there any hope that LOD will be supported soon with Leadwerks 3.1?

 

ok I think I will give it a try 50€ for fuse+dlc is cheap and I can create so much chars as I want.

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I´m really thinking about fuse and mixamo but I dont like the solution that I cant use face plus. I´m also scared that all models will look like the same.

 

ok I think I will give it a try 50€ for fuse+dlc is cheap and I can create so much chars as I want.

 

Honestly, when purchasing models to use in your games or creations looking the same is better than not matching up at all which is what you see when you find someone purchasing models from all different kinds of artists. Personally I haven't looked into Fuse too much but from what I did see you can get some nice variations of characters and it will be an affordable jump start so you have some nice visuals to work with. I find that Mixamo is what a lot of people are using to get out of having to pay a lot of money for custom animations too and it seems to work well.

 

The first reply with the poly count info is a good response to this question. I'd like to add that it really is dependent on everything in the scene and such and how optimized you really want things to be, I always find myself giving a larger limit in the tris to my main character models than I do for others unless they're of importance. I usually try to stay around 8,000 minimum and around 16,000 maximum for my characters that are going to be used in single player scenarios. As you can see from the list above though, there are some varying factors and that is why some games use more or less.

 

I'm aiming for a 3d person style game myself and I'm working on a bunch of assets to release for free but I don't know how long it will take me to get them all complete. You might be able to pick and choose a few props from there when they are ready though :P

 

I think even if you try the Fuse & Mixamo solution now to make something you can always switch out the art later down the line for more custom stuff if you can afford to or something...

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I tried the Fuse demo some days ago and it is really easy to use and the autorigging is supereasy. Dont have seen that there is a 50% sale so I purchased it now and will give it a try later.

 

You might be able to pick and choose a few props from there when they are ready though

 

sure looking for nice props alltime ;)

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Are these only valve characters you can mod in Fuse?

 

http://www.mixamo.com/c/legal_fuse

 

This program may contain characters from the game Team Fortress 2 under license from Valve Corporation. You may incorporate these in your noncommercial artwork or videos (see http://www.valvesoftware.com/videopolicy.html). You may not use them for any commercial purposes, or include them in any kind of interactive content, such as games, without our explicit written permission.
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Are these only valve characters you can mod in Fuse?

 

http://www.mixamo.com/c/legal_fuse

 

Are these only valve characters you can mod in Fuse?

 

http://www.mixamo.com/c/legal_fuse

 

Not all of them are Valve characters, you do get some characters from Team Fortress two but the variation in different body parts that you can put together in Fuse is quite a lot. From the content supplied at the moment you can create hundreds of different characters plus they use Substances which have exposed functions for even further modifications. This is just the content that is supplied now. They mention on the Store page that they are still making and adding new features and content which will be added this year I believe.

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Yeah it is very easy to use. You choose between preset body limbs, and then build your character on those. You can also change the scale and stuff of those limbs to modify them even more. Best way I can explain is it is pretty much like starting a new game of The Sims, the process of when you make your Sim character, its pretty much like that haha

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I just tested Fuse.

I got crash everytime i added clothes sad.png

And lot fo polygons are not necessary for game, only nude body takes too much unecessary polygons.

wireframe.jpg

 

There is lot of unecessary loops specially using normal maps.

 

Well even FF13 on consoles used some 8500 polygons for character and with great textures and normal map the result is amazing good.

solu6r.jpg

 

 

lightning-ffxiii-2.jpg

 

I played the game and on close cam, it would have needed more polys. But it allows faster game with less polygons.

 

 

Now AAA game using more polygons with well rounded models :

but they save polygons for the face , and less polys on other parts

zu1aw5.jpg

Another big example :

670px-Geralt.jpg

If you search for blue links on that page you'll have lot of AAA game wireframe and polycount as above smile.png

http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1685288

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For my first game FUSE will be ok but in my opinion in just create random useless highpoly chars that dont look highpoly (18k polys for a Char)

 

I also believe this tool is some kind of ad for mixamos autorigging stuff.

 

For 50€ its ok but i dont like this tool because my chars have no personality.

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dumb question but:

 

is there a way to calculate a mesh with low details from a mesh with high details?

 

with fuse i can create characters easy and fast but they have 17k tri/polys and would like to create a LOD character out of it

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I usually keep my models (for characters) between roughly 2500 and 8500 tris polies. I'll always keep them lower than 10 K tris. smile.png

Why spend more polies on a model if it looks good with less? A good topology with a good normal map baking should be enough to give low poly models a very high detailed look.

 

When i model/sculpt in 3DCoat, i'll start off with a basic shape for my models (the final 'basic' outer shape of the model), and then export it as a (fairly) low model (i go as low as i can, while still keeping the outer shape and details intact). Then, i increase the polygon count off the basic sculpt to much more (1 or 2 million polies), and sculpt in the finer details untill satisfied. Then, i re-import the low poly mesh and bake the high detailed voxel mesh onto the low poly one. smile.png

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For my first game FUSE will be ok but in my opinion in just create random useless highpoly chars that dont look highpoly (18k polys for a Char)

 

I also believe this tool is some kind of ad for mixamos autorigging stuff.

 

For 50€ its ok but i dont like this tool because my chars have no personality.

You can always edit the models before you move on to rigging them... Also you can give a lot of personality to characters through animations, but with pre-made animations and such through Mixamo that's kind of mute.

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dumb question but:

 

is there a way to calculate a mesh with low details from a mesh with high details?

 

with fuse i can create characters easy and fast but they have 17k tri/polys and would like to create a LOD character out of it

You can use something like Topogun and create a lower resolution mesh and bake the details, I think that's what you're asking?

 

3D Coat automates this pretty efficiently with minimal setup required in some cases so you can also use that and get a much more friendly lower res mesh with the same quality...

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Nice looking model. He'd be great for a main character. If you have a lot of those running around onscreen, you will want a low-res version. If you have a lot of point lights models like that could quickly raise the render polycount up to half a million, so be careful with those.

 

Fortunately, the engine uses GPU skinning, so the animated vertex count isn't much of an issue.

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Be aware that the Turbosquid model isn't animated, only rigged, so you'd have to do that on your own.

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Nice looking model. He'd be great for a main character. If you have a lot of those running around onscreen, you will want a low-res version. If you have a lot of point lights models like that could quickly raise the render polycount up to half a million, so be careful with those.

 

Fortunately, the engine uses GPU skinning, so the animated vertex count isn't much of an issue.

You can use something like Topogun and create a lower resolution mesh and bake the details, I think that's what you're asking?

 

3D Coat automates this pretty efficiently with minimal setup required in some cases so you can also use that and get a much more friendly lower res mesh with the same quality...

 

3d coat is nice. but those tools are so big and hard to handle (tried the demo and was impressed by the workflow with a voxelengine).

 

I want to calculate a low poly model (from my character from fuse) that I have a character for e.g. with just 8k and 13k polygons. Is this possible with 3D coat?

 

 

I´m right that "baking textures" is when I use the high poly textures on a low poly model?

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Yes, or put differently, you create textures out of the high-poly model that make the low-poly one still looking detailed. Especially interesting for the normal map.

 

Edit: For the baking there is also http://www.xnormal.net/1.aspx, which is free, but you need the low-poly model first.

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3d coat is nice. but those tools are so big and hard to handle (tried the demo and was impressed by the workflow with a voxelengine).

 

I want to calculate a low poly model (from my character from fuse) that I have a character for e.g. with just 8k and 13k polygons. Is this possible with 3D coat?

 

 

 

I´m right that "baking textures" is when I use the high poly textures on a low poly model?

 

1) Yeps, 3DCoat is totally awesome! I prefer 3DCoat over ZBrush. Not that ZBrush is a bad program or so, but firstly, 3DCoat costs LESS, has an easy workflow, and has really great tools for retopology, painting, uv mapping, etc, etc...smile.png

 

2) Yeps, you can import models (from fuse or whatever), and save them as low poly version, and then import that low poly version as a retopo mesh, and then you'd use the high poly version of that model as a bake object, to bake the normal map (which is then used to 'project' the finer details of your high resolution model) onto the low poly mesh. Then, you can also bake ambient occlusion onto that low polymesh for even more realism. When done, you can paint diffuse, normal, spec, glow, etc...using layers that can be blended together (using a variety of image filters if you want that, like in a paint program like photoshop, such as 'burn', 'desaturate', 'darken', 'lighten', etc...).

 

3) Yep.

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@ChrisV :

Why spend more polies on a model if it looks good with less? A good topology with a good normal map baking should be enough to give low poly models a very high detailed look.

 

Totally right, specially when this is action , only real time cinematics could ask another more detailled version.

 

 

When i model/sculpt in 3DCoat, i'll start off with a basic shape for my models (the final 'basic' outer shape of the model), and then export it as a (fairly) low model (i go as low as i can, while still keeping the outer shape and details intact). Then, i increase the polygon count off the basic sculpt to much more (1 or 2 million polies), and sculpt in the finer details untill satisfied. Then, i re-import the low poly mesh and bake the high detailed voxel mesh onto the low poly one.

 

Ok , this is one type of workflow.

Personnaly i prefer to start in Voxel mode directly using some voxel base character ,using the tree voxel and some great tools like extract surface (clothes and stuff) is lot more intuitive and freedom compared to standard modeling.

After that i Retopo with quads and lines tools and 3D Coat have the best easy fast retopo tools.

I would suggest to not use the auto retopo as it will not produce as clever optimized Retopo as you would do even if it does a good job.

 

About Zbrush, it will always (until now) remain lot more faster when dealing with millions of polygons,even using surface mode on 3D Coat, Zbrush stills faster, the difference is big using a laptop , Zbrush keeping beeing smmoth and fast with million polygons.

But yes 3D Coat is a blast considering the price and the all in one package from sculpting, retopo, baking,UV, texturing :)

One great tools of 3D coat is seamless texture paint using diff/normal/spec maps, for making level seamless textures.

 

 

Some 3D Coat tips :

Baking : If you have some glitches on normal map, you need to change the values or inner and outer volumes of baking.

Normal map : In Preferences you have some formats of normal map settings, i always use Maya convention choice for no problem.

Retopo : Fusion tool is awesome to quickly decrease polygons when needed.

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3d coat is nice. but those tools are so big and hard to handle (tried the demo and was impressed by the workflow with a voxelengine).

 

I want to calculate a low poly model (from my character from fuse) that I have a character for e.g. with just 8k and 13k polygons. Is this possible with 3D coat?

 

 

I´m right that "baking textures" is when I use the high poly textures on a low poly model?

Yes its very possible. When you say calculate... You mean create a low poly version based off of the high poly character? I know others have answered this before I got to it but yeah 3D Coat can do this without much trouble.

 

Also 3D Coat now has the Live Clay features and you can also use surface mode which differs from the voxel sculpting mode.

 

If you don't like to use these types of tools you can grab something like Topogun, that you can use to make a low poly game ready version of the higher detailed mesh and then use the freely available xnormals that Rastar linked you to and then work from that.

 

As for the comment referring to Chris preferring 3D Coat over Zbrush, I feel that there are some major differences and they both have their advantages and uses, I prefer Zbrush as its easier on my machine as for the way it manages the geometry on screen, I love using both of them and find 3D Coat better for certain tasks and Zbrush for others.

 

3D Coat is a healthy option for a sculpting application though, the new feature additions in v4 make it more appealing to me tongue.png I only own the educational license to 3D Coat right now though, and I will stop here as it may get a little off topic.

 

Also DudeAwesome, if you have/use Blender you can use that as a totally free solution, it has some topology tools but it will require you to do a little work... Have a little look at this:

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