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LE3 very low frame rate after update

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Last LE3 optimisation failed as i got frame rate dropping lot more than before.

It falls to 6 FPS in debug mode now.

PERFORMANCE.jpg

 

That's lot more worst than before update.

Hopefully i don't have LE3 project game plan (only LE3 becoming really faster in the future could make me consider it)

 

Optimisation relying on hardware is not a good solution , like Occlusion LE3 hardware not bringing any frame rate gain, could i check it or not on lights or models it's same result or worst.

What will be needed in LE3 is real made optimisation systems like lightening system, LOD and others not hardware ones.

 

 

I tested yesterday two 3D Rpg games on a simple Andoid phone doing basic 3D , one made in one engine , one other on another indie engine , almsot same scenes, the frame rate is super Low on one and very fast on other : the choice of engine is made.

I think between LE3 and some other cheap engines, this will be same way to choose for some people when going to consider a real game, not only demo scenes.

 

Yes i'm annoying, but frame rate it's one very important thing , that i point when it is not acceptable.

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Debug mode framerate doesn't mean anything. What is your framerate in release mode?

 

It would also help if you listed your hardware.

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it's LapTop these days : Radeon 7600M

So it's 24 FPS i nthe worst case and below 30 FPS majority of time.

Before update i could jumpt to 45FPS in run mode.

 

In run mode as majority of time it's better , but far from 60 FPS for such scene.

fraem_Low.jpg

 

 

I jumped to 60-70 FPS on this laptop with some other engine with same scene, models , lightening, shaders.

 

I just wish LE3 to have real strong optimisation techniques instead on relying on hardware or surfaces optimisations.

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The 7600M is an integrated graphics chip, so I don't think performance will ever be great on that with a deferred renderer.

 

It's a big change that this type of hardware can even run it at all. A year or two ago this wasn't possible.

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In laptop , LE3 was around 38-45 FPS in run mode for small level test i made , and 70 minimum on other 3D engine with same almost empty scene (one dir light, some models and basic same shaders)

 

 

LE3 demo is pretty small level and not complete as it could have :

- full screen effects (DOF , motion blurr, HDR or Bloom)

- continuous running particle effects (smoke from pipes effects, particles from mechanims , or water etc ... )

- HUD and GUI : yes this will need GPU or CPU like any other engine

- More NPC characters at same time in the rooms

So the demo is limited in some way and we could expect it to be very smooth.

 

I'll test in PC , and hope to have 60 FPS minimum on good PC for such limited indie scene as some other 3D engines diplay hight FPS for more complex scenes.

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A deferred renderer always starts slower, but keeps the speed faster as you add more lights. For some laptop hardware, this renderer might not be a good choice due to the initial cost of rendering to several textures each frame.

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I tried on Tower PC : Radeon HD 7600 series

LE3 demo FPS with these low settings :

Resolution : 102*768

AntiAlias : 2

Lightening quality : Medium

Tesselation : disabled

Anisotropy : 1

Trilinear : On

 

Frame rate maximum is 30 FPS when two crawlers enter the room.

It's double compared to before , but not acceptable for a real game, scene level and characters are not crazy complex ?

Some real bottleneck remains in LE3 could it be navigation or animated characters.

 

perf3.jpg

 

 

Frame rate can jump to some pics like 60-70 FPS on some level parts and it can drop down to 37 FPS with empty rooms on some level parts, and it can. Non consistant frame rate seems to be lights and room visibility problem.

perf1.jpg

 

I can run on this PC smoothly real complete complex games with lot more resolution , full screen effects and other standard stuff (HUD, Dialogs, more characters , particles ... )

 

Will LE3 be able to run a more complex game ?

What if you increase resolution , video options, and add GUI, water, grass/trees on terrain , full screen effects ?

Needing super big PC to play small so simple level ?

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leadwerks is not fully optimized yet but josh said in other threads that there will be more optimizations later. I expect better performance later when everything is working and josh have more time for this. I dont care so much about performance right now because its part of the development stage and it will be a lot better after some time. Keep in mind that suboptimal code also can drop fps so if you have hard fps drops in your own game think about your code and try to optimize it even when its just a small memoryleak or something else. Dont expect a detailed date for better performance from josh he also said he dont like to make deadlines and I can understand it. be patient, optimization is a must here and it will come for sure. IMO it will come in 3-4 month I know its a long time but I give him the time for other things. josh is a openGL guru and I also think he have some optimizations in mind but he dont implement it because of other things are important right now

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I dont care so much about performance right now because its part of the development stage and it will be a lot better after some time

Indeed i was the only one planning to publish a small game demo made with Leadwerks 3.1

 

Keep in mind that suboptimal code also can drop fps so if you have hard fps drops in your own game think about your code and try to optimize it even when its just a small memoryleak or something else

This 3.1 official FPS demo without no modifications.

 

 

 

IMO it will come in 3-4 month I know its a long time but I give him the time for other things. josh is a openGL guru and I also think he have some optimizations in mind but he dont implement it because of other things are important right now

It could take lot more .... OpenGL is not enought as it is rendering optimisation only. I already made a complete post showing what should be optimisation engine mechanims instead of rendering only.

 

It's indie engine not a team engine, and yes Josh has other priorities and lot of missing stuff to bring in Leadwerks 3.

For optimisation side, you will just have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

The other point is a navigation problem or animated crawlers problem, only two in the room and frame rate drops to 30 FPS max ? There must be a problem with navmesh that could be corrected/optimized some day for LE3 users.

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i agree that it is currently not the fastest of all engines and it was already not the fastest with LE 3.0 which i think means it might not be the renderer which slows it down.

 

I am no expert but i still believe and hope it will be optimized over time.

For faster PCs like i have it is currently fast enough i think.

 

Maybe a more in-depth analysis where the bottlenecks are is needed

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This has been addressed before and Josh said that he will first concentrate on getting things going without flaws and then optimize, so I'm sure he will get it up to speed in next development phase.

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As long as there is no update to buy for better performance i am absolutely ok with that. But at the moment i am unsure which way josh will take. His mind is a Mysterium for me. :)

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Will optimisation be in the first planned features after PC/Linux 3.1 release or will it be CGS tools or grass or other asked features ? In fact what is planned right after 3.1 official release ?

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I was testing some hundred physic spheres with physical complex shader and shadow for each with 100 frame rate FPS on my laptop, than i thaught why LE3 can't do as well or lot better in my laptop than actual frame rate it has ?

Wy not give some small roadmap for next features, or have some insight on what month could we expect, or when expect some performance system implemented.

LE3 is among the more easy to program engine to do any game type, but will need bigger better frame rate.

 

@gamecreator :

I think the answer is : wait until it is implemented unsure.png

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