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juniez

Physically Based Rendering (+Material Layering)

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Im' not convinced ,not noticeable when you play some fast FPS game for example.

Specular map with good variation do already a great job, and such system will ask even more GPU i think.

 

If i could only make a super game with great level and great characters using specular/normal maps, i would be happy dry.png

Why should i ask last engine like UDK or last tech GPU if i even can't manage to create great characters and levels with standard shaders ?

 

But if LE3 proposes such stuff ... indeed i will be interested.

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I think we'll continue to see cg and real-time graphics converge like this.

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Im' not convinced ,not noticeable when you play some fast FPS game for example.

Specular map with good variation do already a great job, and such system will ask even more GPU i think.

 

If i could only make a super game with great level and great characters using specular/normal maps, i would be happy dry.png

Why should i ask last engine like UDK or last tech GPU if i even can't manage to create great characters and levels with standard shaders ?

 

But if LE3 proposes such stuff ... indeed i will be interested.

 

PBR will save you time playing guesswork for the right diffuse / specular values for materials

and layered materials will save you time authoring assets (once you have a decent library of premade materials) AND ON top of that you'll get pretty much infinite texture density and physically accurate area lighting (assuming it's correctly implemented)

 

it's good stuff..!! and with opengl 4.0 it's not like you're targeting lower-end hardware anyway sooooo

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+1 for Physically Based Rendering - Not only would it be awesome but like juniez said it would cut down on guess work for materials. :D

 

I am just waiting for native Linux support. :D

 

I think we'll continue to see cg and real-time graphics converge like this.

 

Is that a maybe for PBR in leadwerks?

 

Will Pay for PBR

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It seems specular to not be used anymore and thye go with metalic and cavity instead to better represent materials.newshader.jpg

 

UDK have already shader making tool graphically, with LE3 you could do that but you'll need to program yourself, and use material slots to had three new features : Metal, Roughtness, Cavity

 

What to say, it will ask lot more GPU as now this is not specular component but 3 new component to calculate and choose or create ,so some more workflow work instead of one specular only map, but the result is great.

 

 

I've looked more at a concrete example like the game The Order to see what was done.

 

Almost 20 steps to achieve a 3D model for in game ... fewwwww ... only studios can put so much work , i doubt some little indie ot put such work on all assets of his game, he would never finish his game laugh.png

process.jpg

http://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/s2013-shading-course/rad/s2013_pbs_rad_slides.pdf

In fact it reminds me a lot of genetica tools for textures, but working on shaders.

 

 

Material Layers is great, like painting layers.

layers.jpg

 

 

Almost comparable to multitexturing but now working on any object of the scene, and it's not only diffuse multitexturing, but shader material multitexturing.

For example reflective water mixed with ground brick.

layers2.jpg

 

So less work on a 2D program to make unique textures, as you'll just take any model and do some multitexture paint per vertex.

You could have same models with different "paintings", and this allows you total freedom like what we can see on last image.

 

It will ask even more GPU as this will be calculation of multiple shaders combined and materials layered, so lot more slow than simple actual shader system.

 

For indie people, the way that won't work will be if it asks lot more maps to create and lot more settings in the workflow, this could become a big amount of work even less accessible anymore for non 3D artists.

 

The solution could be a simplified system, with tools to auto calculate the differents maps and the necessity to have a library of predone materials base also, good for general cases.

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It's actually very very easy to switch your workflow and doesn't take any extra effort:

 

albedo -> diffuse WITHOUT BAKED AO / CAVITY, taking into real-life values

metallic -> specular taking into account real-life values

roughness -> specular power (also real life values)

cavity should be generated by your baking program

 

the only change workflow-wise is that you would use different values consistently for different materials

 

+ It's impossible to just plug in a truly physically-based renderer within LE3's shader system at the moment - it requires a different lighting model

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For you it seems so easy laugh.png

Did you watch all the process and steps involved in the game "The Order" i posted the link ?

http://blog.selfshadow.com/publications/s2013-shading-course/rad/s2013_pbs_rad_slides.pdf

There is almost 20 steps, to just make the good material for the object.

 

What do you mean by "real values" ? lot of stuff and adjustments will have to be done by 3D artists.

 

It's like Photoshop, or Zbrush if you can't make great textures or models , the tool is not a push button called "Make the game for me"

 

Even with actual shader system diff/normal/spec maps, people do amazing games :

Untitled-2.jpg

 

luggage.jpg

 

11755313964_e70b7d5eb6_o.jpg

 

 

If you can't actually make something great, i'm not sure you'll do better just by changing shader model and workflow.

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marmoset toolbag 2 is PBR though , lol

 

by real values I mean:

Albedo_values.jpg

 

mE99MYh.png

 

using these values in the appropriate albedo / metalness maps, you'll get a readable material under every environment and lighting conditions ( something that can't actually be realized in the traditional lighting model because it doesn't follow the law of energy conservation )

 

and 20 steps.... isn't that much - most of the complication (it's not even that complicated) in your slides come from their material layering. other than that it's not at all different from the traditional workflow (highpoly -> lowpoly -> bake -> bake editing if needed - > material definition -> wear)

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